SPEAKER_00: 0:00

The conversation you're about to listen to is between three women who are not only coaches working in the post-separation space, but who are also real women, real mothers, and real friends. We laugh together, we support each other, and we've held space for each other through some really difficult seasons, personally and professionally. We also hold space for parents navigating some of the most complex, traumatic, and emotionally demanding seasons of their lives. Something that I feel very strongly about, something that you'll hear reflected in this conversation, is that our humanity doesn't make us less professional. It's actually what makes us even more capable of doing this work incredibly well. When you're sitting with someone who understands pressure, grief, uncertainty, the systems involved, you're not just getting theory, you're getting real presence. You're getting real regulation and co-regulation. You're getting someone who can hold the complexity of what you're navigating in a way that's strategic, in a way that prevents things from collapsing into reactivity. We work very closely together as a coaching team. We challenge each other, we support each other, we think deeply about this work together. And that collective experience strengthens how we show up for the parents that we support. In last week's episode, I spoke about neuroplasticity and about being really discerning about the environments that you're placing yourself in during separation and post-separation recovery. Because not all support environments are neutral. Some can increase fear, confusion, and reactivity. Some can inadvertently increase spiralling and a lack of solution-focused strategic action. And there are other environments that help you to build clarity, capacity, strategy, and confidence. Everything that we build at Danielle Black Coaching across our coaching work, our community, our group environments is intentionally designed to be safe, professionally held, as well as being deeply human. For so many of our clients, that includes access to our Stronger Braver Together circle calls, video calls that sit alongside intermittent one-on-one coaching, and access to that stronger braver together space is also included with all of our coaching packages. Those group calls are designed to give parents access to structured group learning, shared perspective, and professionally guided discussion. Not just peer support, but also clinically informed child-focused guidance in a safe, contained space. If you're curious about working with us at a deeper level, the first step is always an initial call with the coach that you feel most aligned with. From there, we can help you to understand what level of support is most appropriate for you and your individual situation and circumstance. You deserve to be supported by professionals who see you fully. Not just your situation, not just your documents, not just your case, but you as a parent and as a person. What you're about to hear is a real conversation between three coaches who care deeply about this work and about the families that we support. I hope you enjoy listening to it as much as we enjoyed recording it. Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Post-Separation Abuse Podcast. I'm your host, Danielle Black, and with me today I have the two senior coaches at Danielle Black Coaching, Trudy Hargrave and Bridget Morgan. Hello. Hi. Hi, Bridget Trudy. Thank you so much for being here today. This is a first for Danielle Black Coaching and for the Post-Sparation Abuse Podcast having three coaches. What a treat for all of our followers and listeners and clients who I know will be listening into this episode with a lot of interest because we're going to talk about something that I don't think has been covered on the podcast as yet, not in any great detail. And that is the topic of group work in the post-separation space. In particular, the value of group spaces, the value of connecting with others who are navigating something similar. And the way in which that work and that connection differs from what we can experience in one-on-one work and one-on-one environments. One of the things that I notice when I'm talking with clients, when I'm working with clients in that one-on-one coaching space, is that often when, particularly in a first conversation, it's common for people to be thinking that their situation is really unique. There can be a lot of shame, they can be concerned about whether or not somebody is going to get it. And for that reason, I think group spaces are really powerful in terms of being able to normalize post-separation experiences, post-separation abuse, other forms of family violence, and the reduction of shame that comes with that. Is that something that the two of you have noticed or or would like to add to?

SPEAKER_01: 5:47

Yeah, yeah, Jenia. I would first of all I'd just like to say it's great to be here as a team. Um, three strong. I think it's fantastic that all three of us are together here to support our listeners. Yeah, I really think that the group dynamics really lend to us being able to see that, oh, it's not just me, you know, who's experiencing this. Um, they don't have to actually articulate what they're feeling or what they've experienced. They can learn through hearing others speak and them sharing their stories, and then they can gain that an understanding as well of like the signs, the the behaviors that they might be experiencing, and seeing it reflected in someone else and their situation can sort of be this gentle illumination of their own experience and help guide them to see the bigger picture and step back to understand their situation and also help them come up with solutions for how to navigate.

SPEAKER_00: 6:44

Absolutely. Great point. That social proof of you know recognizing that they're not the only one, and as you said, learning as well from what others are doing in their own cases. There's a bit of that social proof, I think, that comes through as well. What about you, Bridget? What have you noticed?

SPEAKER_02: 7:07

Yes, that and um I think it's a great space to find some perspective as well. Uh, in a group setting, uh, we are all there for the same context or circumstance, and there's a lot of universality in our experiences as well as the unique flavor or um traits that you're navigating. But I think for me, one of the biggest values is protective. So I could see future versions of myself in people whose journey was perhaps a few steps ahead of me. I found that very inspirational. Um, there was also a little sense of um potentially giving back like the value of being able to uh encourage or share my story for people who were perhaps a few steps behind and and just coming in, and yeah, just that sense of feeling like I had something to give with really I don't know, buoyant and affirming because you're in a place where and and I don't mean this in a sense of like there's a pressure to give, it was just more like an affirming moment of like ah, I've got something to contribute value as well, in a space where I often had felt like I was empty. Yeah, that meant something to me. I think that there's a a sense of like being able to find a language too for your experience, that you're not just scrabbling at trying to justify what you're going through, that it it's yeah, you've got the validation, you've got the support, the perspective is quite grounding as well.

SPEAKER_01: 8:48

If I can add to what Bridget is saying, that there's that classic thing of everyone needing to be seen and heard, and how that really validates your experience, and then that helps you move past the trauma in a sense that you can you're seen, you're not it's not just in your head, and you know, you don't end up pathologizing yourself or buying into the narrative that you may be hearing from your ex or other people who don't understand coercive control or post-separation abuse. So that I think that being seen and heard by not just one person, like you know, by a counsellor or a psychologist or a coach, but having that group experience of people who have lived and are living this experience and can see and hear and understand exactly what you're going through is extremely powerful.

SPEAKER_00: 9:38

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Bridget and Trudy. And I think something that both of you spoke about as well was that concept of language modeling. That, I mean, it's one thing when it's coming from a coach, but when you're also hearing other parents navigating similar things, speaking about their experiences, oftentimes in that group space, there's also that ability to be learning from the way that someone else has articulated their experience. And I think if if we're talking about the group experiences that we've been running now at Danielle Black Coaching for several years, and some of our listeners who are clients will understand that, but for those who don't, clients who engage with a coach via a coaching package, they have the opportunity to also connect with regular fortnightly group coaching video calls. Now, those are optional, but they've been really popular for a number of our clients. It's a way to come together and connect. And what you'll find on a call is that there are a number of people in different stages of their journey. For example, there could be someone who's in the early stages of separation. There could be a handful of people who are in the court system, maybe a couple for parenting and for financial matters, maybe someone who's just there for the financial separation side of things. Then you might have someone who also is in the group but already has final orders, or is preparing for final trial, or has just come through meeting with a report writer. One of the positives of that space is that we all get to learn from one another. We all get to learn from where somebody else is in the journey. There can be cautionary tales, we can learn from others' mistakes, but it's in that safe, contained space, and there's always a coach there who's hosting, who's facilitating, who's keeping things solution focused. And I think that's an important thing as well. It's one thing to be in a group environment. And I know that there's there's many different groups out there. There's a lot of groups on social media, for example. But I think something that our groups offer that isn't found anywhere else is that it is facilitated and hosted by someone who has not just deep-lived experience of family violence, of the post-separation journey for Trudy and I, it's parenting with final court orders and having gone through that court experience for Bridget. It's many years of experience in parenting and co-parenting without orders. But as well, we're bringing that coaching lens, we're bringing the framework of our coaching, we're bringing the knowledge from the post-separation parenting blueprint that underpins the coaching work. And I think that then adds even more value. We're we're a very solution-focused coaching space, whether it's one-on-one or whether it's group, that I think doesn't always happen in other groups. I'm sure in other groups there can be a lot of being seen, a lot of being heard. But I think there can also be a lot of horror stories with not necessarily the right solution-focused approach to, well, okay, you know, this is the horror story part of things, but what now? What now? What next? And that's what I think we do really well with our clients. I'm interested if if you, Trudy, or you, Bridget, if if you have some other thoughts about the benefits of coaching in that group space where there's that peer learning, learning from other fellow travelers, but also when there is the containment there of having a coach.

SPEAKER_01: 13:50

Uh yeah, Danielle, I think you're right. There is a difference between the space that we hold as opposed to just, you know, a venting sort of space, because we don't just facilitate people sharing, as you say, like horror stories, which, you know, could traumatize participants. So we don't look at it like that. The space is more about, as you say, solution focus, like, you know, bringing a current problem that you might be experiencing and putting it out to the group to see different takes, different ideas on how they could approach it, and everyone sharing their experiences, what did work, what didn't work, and then having a coach there who can also, you know, suggest a variety of pathways as well. So everyone gains from one person's situation and issue and learns things that they may be able to take into the future in their journey. So I think that is a really strong difference between like it's not just a venting space, it's it's like a working space where we're improving, increasing our skills, our knowledge, learning from each other, sharing our knowledge, all under the guidance of a coach who brings it all together so that you know at the end of the day when we leave the call, people feel more grounded, they have some solutions that they can make a choice of and people can choose to either participate or they can just be there as uh silent, you know, witnesses and just be absorbing and when they're ready to be involved or when they feel a need to be involved, they can jump in. There's no pressure and it's a space where we don't pressure people to share any particular details or to even share. They can just come and join in and learn and be involved at the pace that they're comfortable with in their journey.

SPEAKER_00: 15:34

Really, really well said, Trudy, and so important to mention that that, you know, with the group spaces that we have, there's never any pressure to contribute. It's certainly a richer environment, I think, when more people do. But that safety is often built through repeated, safe group exposure. And I think that's another reason why having a coach in these spaces is so valuable, as opposed to it just being a group of fellow travelers without a coach, because the coach is there to also create that regulated environment. So from a nervous system perspective, the coach is in a regulated state, they're calm. That then helps to regulate the nervous systems of everyone in the group. So we're then helping everyone in the group with that shared co-regulation, and there's no pressure to share. And yet I would say that with the the group experiences that that we've been hosting for several years now, most people are sharing. Most people are more than comfortable to be sharing again because it is such a safe, welcoming space. Bridget, what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_02: 16:42

Yeah, look, I agree with so much with everything that's been discussed so far, like that sense of uh having the the uh the word safe come up quite a few times. And I almost want to make an offering of the word sacred as well, um, without getting too woo-woo, but it feels like the group coaching offered here, provided by Daniel Black Coaching, is that and particularly from my experience as well, it's been like a sacred container and a healthy channel through which I could receive that validation, that support, that guidance. There are really strong guardrails and boundaries. I didn't I never felt like I that you know things could kind of veer off, you know, out of control, not necessarily off track because we can be very flexible and fluid in the sessions, depending on whose needs were where and who was articulating, who was feeling what at what time or what circumstances were kind of coming to the forefront, but that sense of sacred container and always feeling held that you could have this really healthy space to co-regulate in, to express and share, to receive practical solutions focused advice. And I think a side value that's maybe not been um mentioned yet is when you're going through this really intense experience. Obviously, we all hopefully would have our own personal support networks. You know, again, I've mentioned chosen family or other community groups, friendships. However, these separation and divorce journeys take a really long time, and again, without trying to put any negative spin on that, but they take as long as they take. However, our friendships and our chosen family and our community may not have the longevity or the sustainability to hold you through that when it's the most important thing that you're going through for a long period of time. So having a healthy container to be able to continue, you know, articulating, expressing, seeking advice, getting support, being inspired, being challenged, having reality checks, like having that space is so important so that you can do the distance that it requires to get to the end of this journey. And I wouldn't say that any of my friends or my personal support networks got tired of me, but I was aware of saturating them. I was aware of overloading them. I was aware of like all I talk about is this, you know, you know, the other parent, the situation, da da da. It's like there's it's all so important, it's all so valid. But at some point, I feel like it it's necessary to redirect that into a healthy container or channel that into a healthy space so that you're getting what you're needing, but your friendships aren't getting you know oversaturated. Your community supports you can start to create new memories and experiences with your friendships, and your community supports are there when you really need them, as opposed to just the another venting space or another crap space. So you're starting to be very proactive in how you move it forward.

SPEAKER_00: 19:56

So well said, Bridget, thank you. And I agree, I don't think using the word sacred is too woo-woo at all. And I've often described our groups as being modern virtual women's circles, not in a therapy sense or not in, you know, just sort of sharing your story. More in the sense that you don't have to carry it alone, that you're in a space with other protective parents, other mothers who are also learning how to stay child-focused, regulated, strategic, under pressure. And you can do that being witnessed and supported because I don't think humans were meant to navigate these sorts of big life transitions on their own. And, you know, if we think back again about the women's circle link, for so much of history, women have gathered in circles to share knowledge, to help one another, to make sense of what they were experiencing. And I think our groups are very much a modern virtual version of that, perhaps with a little bit more structure in the sense of being hosted and facilitated by a coach. So we've got that structure and that facilitation. We've also got the evidence-based frameworks. And I think all of the women that work with us in those group spaces, they're not just supported emotionally, but they're also building real capacity and real strategy. And that's something that I think just makes those spaces so incredibly powerful.

SPEAKER_02: 21:31

I'd like to add that I I feel that um another benefit of uh the group potential is uh that sense of empowerment as well. So because you're having this expanded input from different people's experiences, it is a part of your capacity building. And so that in a way can reduce your any potential sort of dependence on a one to one session. Not that there's not the value in the one-to-one session, especially early on, or at a significant point throughout your journey where you do need the benefit of that you need specific one-to-one support, but the group support can help you develop your capacity in a long-term sustainable way. Um, by yeah, just it's almost like I have this image of like a young fawn who's born and staggering little baby steps at first, and you need a lot of support at the beginning, but as you get stronger, um, and that that little deer can start to take their first steps into the into the woods supported by their you know their parent. The the the sense of yeah, the the strengthening um through the group and and the herd or the pack, if you will, that means that your one-to-one sessions can be very bespoke and very focused and very strategic and have a lot more impact when you need it most.

SPEAKER_00: 23:02

Absolutely, Bridget. And I think it's it's also relevant to talk about what our our group calls are referred to, and that is it's our stronger, braver together circle. That's the wording that I've used since day one when when I introduced this for our coaching package clients all of those years ago. Stronger, braver together. That is our community. That is what that is what we are. We're stronger together, we're braver together.

SPEAKER_01: 23:33

Those aren't just words, Daniel. I have to say that that is actually a lived experience. Like that I personally felt, you know, like during my journey being part of the groups and being working with you, I felt that extra strength come in from the having the connections and from having the support. It truly does make that difference of making you feel braver to take on things that otherwise you might not feel the strength to face. But also I just like to add that, you know, as a coach through the sessions, it's really lovely to be able to watch clients grow and grow their skills and capacity and see them navigate, learn how to navigate their journey with grace and and empowerment. And that's just something that, you know, really stands out about those small groups. That is a gift that I see as a coach being able to witness that and seeing how strong our clients can become through sharing knowledge and holding space for each other.

SPEAKER_00: 24:30

I completely agree as a coach, it's it's wonderful to be able to work with clients one-on-one, but then also to see those same clients in group spaces and sharing what they've learned, sharing their achievements, sharing the wins, sharing the hard times. And I think it's, as Bridget, I think, mentioned, it's a way of giving back for clients as well, for the women that we work with. I think that can be so incredibly empowering on their journey when they're in that group coaching space. They're hearing someone talk about something, and then they're raising their hand in the group because that's something that they've navigated. And it might be that you know that they've navigated that with one-on-one coaching support, but in that context of the group space, they then get to jump in and provide that insight and provide that guidance and that support, which is incredible. It's how we're all we're all giving. We're all contributing. Yes, the the groups are facilitated and hosted by the coach, but the coach is not the one doing most of the speaking in those contexts. We're all talking, we're all contributing, we're all sharing, we're all giving, we're all growing, we're all building capacity. And I think we're all becoming stronger and braver, both individually but also collectively because of that.

SPEAKER_01: 25:55

100%.

SPEAKER_00: 25:56

100%.

SPEAKER_01: 25:58

And we're all contributing to the change.

SPEAKER_00: 26:01

Absolutely. Yes, we are we are here because we are change makers and we are cycle breakers. And listeners, we need you. Just by being here with us, connecting with us for this conversation. You are part of the change, you are part of breaking that cycle. And if you'd like to go even deeper with that work, we would love for you to join us on that deeper level. You can connect with us in a one-on-one capacity by heading to the website danielblackcoaching.com.au, or you can connect with us in a group coaching space. You can learn more about that by heading to the website or by signing up to the newsletter where you'll get information straight to your inbox. But we are here. We are here, we are here to help you, to support you, to help you become stronger and braver with us together. We would love to welcome you into our deeper community spaces if that's something that you think that you want or that you need or that part of you is craving. Thank you so much for being here with us today. Thank you to Trudy and to Bridget. We look forward to chatting with you again soon.