Speaker 1: 0:00

Hi, thanks for joining me on another episode of the Post-Separation Abuse Podcast. I'm your host, danielle Black, an Australian separation, divorce and co-parenting coach specialising in supporting women who are dealing with controlling and high-conflict partners and former partners. Partners and former partners. My style of coaching is very specialised in nature because I only work with women who are experiencing levels of ongoing conflict with their former partner, women who are experiencing controlling behaviours, other forms of family violence and they're wanting to plan a separation. And women who have already separated but they're dealing with controlling behaviors, perhaps behaviors that are abusive in other ways as well, whilst they're trying to navigate the divorce process, whilst they're trying to come to some kind of agreement with their former partner about a financial settlement, about parenting arrangements with the children, that sort of thing. It's not uncommon for my clients to ultimately end up in the court system, not because that's what they want. In fact, of all of the clients I have who are in the court system, the majority of them are the respondents, so that means that it is their former partner who has initiated legal proceedings and initiated filing with the court, and that's really important to keep in mind.

Speaker 1: 1:34

I think some people, when they hear that I'm a divorce coach that specializes in quote unquote high conflict situations. I think there can be a misconception that my approach is high conflict or that the clients that I work with are high conflict and are trying to get even with their former partners or things of that kind, and none of that is accurate. All of my clients would much rather their separation, divorce and co-parenting journey be amicable, as amicable as humanly possible. The problem is when your partner or former partner is controlling in a number of ways, potentially abusive as well in other ways, when they're seeking an amount of parenting time after separation that is not in the best interest of the children, when they're exposing the children to harm in a number of different ways. Amicability is not possible in that situation not genuinely, and I want to make that really clear, because if anyone tries to sell you that, whether we're talking about divorce coaches, whether we're talking about lawyers, counsellors, any professional, you need to scrutinise that really, really carefully, because oftentimes, establishing any sort of amicability with a controlling former partner or someone who's abusive in other ways, ultimately what that means is you being the one to repeatedly give in, you being the one to appease the abuser, you being the one to continue to walk on eggshells, you being the one to compromise, be reasonable, so to speak, and that's not genuine amicability. That's actually you being encouraged to have no healthy boundaries in order to maintain a facade of amicability. It's fake Pretend, and not only is this harmful for you, but it's also potentially very harmful for any children that you share with your former partner. And it doesn't get better and this is the issue that I have with the approach of many professionals who work in this space that those professionals are not going to be in your world helping you over the longer term. And if they can just get an outcome for you that has this veneer or facade of amicability for many of them, that's good enough for them, because the reality is that they're not the ones that have to continue dealing with your former partner, they're not the ones who have to co-parent with your former partner. They're not the ones who are going to be lying awake at night worrying about the safety of your children. It's going to be you doing those things.

Speaker 1: 4:24

And the problem is controlling men. Abusive men only get bolder over time when there are no healthy boundaries, and putting in place healthy boundaries can be really scary when giving in to an abuser has been how you've survived and how you've kept the conflict low during the relationship, and this is why I do the work that I do. I don't sell my clients any promises of amicability. That would be a lie. That would be very disingenuous of me. I help them to understand the real nature of what it is that they're facing and how they can manage that, to optimize the outcome for themselves and their children Also, whilst letting them know that this will take work. This is going to take boundaries, and I'm here to help them and to support them with that process, and not not just me, but for clients who sign up to a coaching package, they also have the benefit of the group membership that I've created. That includes access to an online community platform that also has app functionality, so you can have an app on your smartphone or other device where not only can you direct message me, but you can also engage with other women that I'm working with. So it's a real community that is supporting you whilst you're learning to put boundaries in place, whilst you're working out what are going to be the best parenting arrangements for your children those sorts of things.

Speaker 1: 6:00

The reason that my style of coaching is specialised is because this is not how most divorce coaches work. Many don't have a very good understanding of the legal system, the court system. Many don't have a lot of their clients going through the court system, and that's the benefit that not only my own personal lived experience brings to the work that I do, but also just the sheer number of women that I have supported over the years and am currently supporting, who are navigating the legal system. This gives me a lot of insight into, in various states of this country, what are the parenting orders that are commonly being issued by the court. For example, what patterns are emerging in terms of parenting orders? What are the sorts of things that courts are likely to view as reasonable or not reasonable? They're all things that I have a high level of understanding around because of the nature of the work that I do, and this is where I think it's so important that, if you're navigating separation, divorce, co-parenting and your partner or former partner is controlling or abusive in other ways, if you're currently in the court system or you think there is a chance that you might end up there because of the personality of your partner or former partner, it's so important that you choose professionals to support you who have the necessary knowledge, understanding and skill set.

Speaker 1: 7:30

Choose professionals that have the necessary expertise. Not doing so would be like going to a doctor who does not specialise in your particular illness, injury or disease. You are just simply not going to get the best outcome. Exactly the way that you would want to choose a specialist with expertise when it comes to your health. Your separation, divorce and co-parenting journey is very much the same. You need to choose professionals who have a very deep understanding of what it is that you're navigating, and not just a deep understanding, but who also have significant experience.

Speaker 1: 8:13

And, as I said, when it comes to high conflict situations and high conflict former partners, when it comes to controlling an abusive behavior from a former partner, when it comes to concerns around mental health, personality disorder, traits, those sorts of things, these are things that I have a lot of lived experience with, but also professional experience, and that does make a difference when it comes to the outcome that my clients are able to achieve for themselves, and I'm wanting to share this with you now because I think it's important that for those of you who are listening to the podcast, who haven't yet reached out to work with me, I want you to know more about who I am and what it is that I do, the work that I specialize in, because I think that's important. I think you should know more about the person that you ultimately choose to work with, because the reality is that the person that you choose to support you, or the people that you choose to support you on this journey, will have an impact on your overall outcome, and not just an impact on your outcome, but they will have an impact on how you experience the journey along the way. And this is just one of the reasons why I'm so proud about the group membership and online community that I have created, because the support that my clients provide one another is mind-blowing. I had a client who was navigating an incredibly stressful, distressing situation, and the support that was generated on our online platform rallying around her. It actually made me a bit teary, and I'm feeling teary just reflecting on that now, because this online community is exactly what I had always hoped it would be that you know this work that I do. It is not just about me. It is so much bigger than me, and I feel so proud to have created an environment where women are feeling heard and validated and supported, and validated and supported, even though sometimes the best we can do is just words of encouragement Sometimes that's all that it's possible for us to do but never underestimate the power of words of validation and encouragement from other women with lived experience, from women who truly get it.

Speaker 1: 10:44

One of the great things about this community is that no one ever has to justify their situation or over-explain or anything of that kind. When you talk about the behavior of your former partner, you are never going to get anyone on this online community ask you whether or not maybe you just misunderstood something that your former partner said, or did we all get it? We all know exactly what it is that each other is navigating. We know the personality that we're dealing with on the other side. We know the depths of the control, the manipulation, all of it, and it makes such a huge difference. And again, I think this is really important.

Speaker 1: 11:31

When you're choosing who you want to walk beside you, when you're making a choice about which professional is right for you, what is that professional bringing to the table in terms of their understanding, their skill set, their expertise? But also, what else are they offering? And I'm really cautious around saying that, because I do think that the most valuable thing that I offer is my personal time. My one-on-one coaching is always going to be the most valuable thing to my clients, always. But in saying that, the online community, the group membership we have weekly group video calls, as well as our online platform all of that is just so valuable, so incredibly valuable.

Speaker 1: 12:18

The human connection aspect of all of this I just don't think you can put a price on it. To be honest, and in all honesty, it probably costs me far more to run, moderate and host than what I actually ever get out of it myself in a monetary sense. And you know what. I'm fine with that because I know it's making a difference, but it is important to also look at that. You know, what else are you getting from a coach or from another professional aside from their one-on-one time? I think there's a lot of professionals out there that have courses and things of that kind. Look, I'm not completely against courses, but what I will say is that courses are really common in the coaching industry when people are wanting to scale what they're doing.

Speaker 1: 13:09

So a little bit of coaching 101 for people who have a coaching business is that there's a term called scaling, which is essentially about maximizing your profit for the same amount of work or for less work. This is why some people have group offerings, but they charge a similar price for the group offering so they want to get as many bums on seats in a group sense, and so people can be paying a really significant amount to get membership to a group, but what they're not getting is the benefit of one-on-one. I offer again the group membership, but that's complimentary to my coaching package clients and includes weekly group calls. You know again, all included in that coaching package. They're not paying extra fees on top of the coaching package price for those things. And I could scale to a point where I was mainly offering group services. I know that there would be business coaches out there that would probably encourage me to do that, but the reality is, for the work that I do, again, it's highly specialized. There's no one else in this country that does exactly what I do. And group work, whilst it's great, it is not effective enough for my clients that I would ever just offer that. So I think it's really important to be aware of that. That group work's great. However, in my professional experience, it is not enough on its own, particularly if your situation involves some complexity and if you're going through the court system. Just absolutely group work, I don't think is enough on its own.

Speaker 1: 14:50

And also courses. Courses are another way for someone to scale a business because they can spend time creating a course. So then they just have this one course but then they can sell it multiple times to many people. So, again, similar to the group thing it's about, you've got this one thing that you're wanting to sell as much as humanly possible to get a lot of revenue. With the idea that you're not spending as much time doing things like one-on-one coaching and a lot of coaches in any industry not just the divorce industry, but in all industries many people will scale back their one-on-one work and have a course instead, and that course might include one one-on-one session or maybe two. Maybe if you pay in full, you might get extra one-on-ones or quote-unquote bonus one-on-one session. But the interesting thing about courses is that what we know, the research that's been done in the area of courses, is that most people who purchase a course never actually finish the course. So you, listening to this, might be able to think of some courses that you have purchased in the past that you just never really fully completed, and even people who do complete the course. There is far more benefit to a course if it includes a lot of one-on-one support and also some group support, and I think this is really important to keep in mind.

Speaker 1: 16:24

I've segued a little bit here. I'm not solely just talking about separation, divorce and co-parenting coaching here, but really about anything that, whatever it is you're wanting support with. Don't just look for the cheapest thing or the fanciest thing or the thing that's got you know the most printable resources or the fanciest names. However many modules, that's not what's going to get you the results. The thing that's ultimately going to get you the best results is one-on-one. That's my firm belief and that also is borne out in any of the research that's done when it comes to coaching. And also you need to be looking at you know. What do you actually want from the coaching? What is your specific situation and can this particular coach help you with what you want? Have they actually achieved something similar?

Speaker 1: 17:18

And some people may disagree with this. Some people may say that someone can be a really great coach in an area that they don't have any lived experience in. However, I do respectfully disagree. I think one of the reasons that my clients get the outcomes that they do and why they just get so much benefit and value from my coaching is that I do have lived experience separating, divorcing and co-parenting in a situation where there was a lot of control and ongoing post-separation abuse. That adds a lot to my understanding and to the outcomes that I'm able to help my clients achieve, and, you know, it just gives me, I think, a degree of credibility and street cred, as they say that I have lived experience. I'm not just here on my soapbox talking about you being able to take back your control from a controlling former partner. Having never done it myself, I just think that would be bullshit. I don't know how anyone could promise you that sort of support if they have no fucking idea what it's like to live that situation. That's my view. Take it or leave it. But the purpose of me sharing this with you is that I want you to maintain healthy skepticism when you're searching for professionals to support you, and I want you to think really carefully about what this person is putting up on the table.

Speaker 1: 18:48

Don't just look at the cost. Of course, cost needs to be a factor, particularly if you're concerned about money, I get it. I've got a number of clients who have got payment plans with me. That's a service that I provide. I've got a number of clients whose parents have helped them to pay for my services. I've got a number of clients who have been able to utilize their EVP the escaping violence payment to help them secure my services. So I get it. Cost does need to be part of the conversation, but cost in and of itself should not be the deciding factor. Definitely don't go for something just because it's cheap. The same way that one doctor is not the same as another doctor or one dentist is not the same as another dentist, or one teacher is not the same as another doctor, or one dentist is not the same as another dentist, or one teacher is not the same as another teacher. The exact same thing goes for coaches.

Speaker 1: 19:42

If your situation is currently in the court system or if you suspect that that's where it's heading. So, for example, if you have a controlling former partner who seems very determined on a particular amount of parenting time with the children and is not likely to back down. Also, if they have the money to fund legal proceedings and court action, whether that's themselves personally or family members, I really urge that you get in touch with me. So many women come to me after their situation is already in the court system, after they've already made several mistakes. It's not that we can't come back from those mistakes, but it just requires a much more intensive strategy that can take a little bit of time to implement. So, for example, I work with women who have come to me after there has been problematic care arrangements in place for a while. So they recognize that they gave in to their former partner's demands and their children spend too much time in the care of the other parent too much time than what is really healthy for the children and they've created a problematic precedent because of that. So that's one reason why women come to me.

Speaker 1: 21:03

I've supported a number of clients to actually successfully wind back the time. This is before they've had court orders put in place prior to anything getting to court. Now that is really important. If you are going to change care arrangements, if you realise that the kids are spending more time with your ex than what is healthy for them, winding back those care arrangements before anything is put in a court order preferably before you're in the court system is so imperative and again, this is where it's important for you to choose to work with someone who has the expertise to help you, because this is something that I have experience with that. I have experience helping clients to do successfully when you work with me. I'm not going to bullshit you. I'm going to be very, very open and honest about what I think is possible. I don't give you legal advice, but when there's no court orders in place, you're not doing anything illegal.

Speaker 1: 22:00

When you change parenting arrangements, but there are ways to go about it to help ensure that it doesn't backfire on you if things do end up in the court system. That is something that I have experience and expertise and a particular skill set with. If that's something that you need, please don't waste time on other professionals. Your psychologist or counsellor cannot help you with that. They might be helping you personally with your emotions, emotional regulation, your distress around everything. They cannot help you understand the court system or how to change parenting arrangements in a way that's not going to backfire. The same way is if you're working with a divorce coach who's primarily helping you just to accept emotionally the change in your situation or the emotions around the behavior of your former partner, that is not someone who is going to be able to strategically assist you to make care arrangements for the kids that are not going to backfire.

Speaker 1: 23:01

So, whether we're talking about changing problematic parenting arrangements prior to there being court orders in place, or whether we're talking about you know you're about to separate or you've got a new separation and you're not sure what parenting orders or parenting plan is appropriate, what care arrangements are appropriate. This is also something that I've got a lot of experience with, and I've got the benefit not only of having lived through all of this but, as I said, I work with so many women, and many of whom who have been in the court process in some way, shape or or form. So I have a really good understanding of what courts deem to be appropriate, and this is just invaluable for my clients, because my clients want to know whether or not the care arrangements that they're putting in place you know, would that be frowned upon by the court or not? Again, I don't give legal advice, but I can give insight into this sort of stuff because I just work with so many women who have navigated this, as well as, of course, maintaining close ties with lawyers and barristers. That helps my understanding of these things. Not only that, but also my understanding of what's age appropriate, developmentally appropriate.

Speaker 1: 24:16

I'm a mother of four children. I work with clients who also have neurodiverse children, children with additional needs, so I bring to this part of my role a wealth of experience to support women in making appropriate parenting plans and in changing parenting arrangements that are problematic prior to things ending up in the court system. I also have women work with me extensively prior to meeting with a court child expert or family consultant for the purposes of a child impact report or family report. I cannot stress enough how important it is to prepare appropriately, before meeting with one of these report writers, the report that you end up with from these experts the recommendations. This will have a significant impact on your overall outcome. Potentially, it will be one of the most important documents in your case. It will be given much more weight than any affidavit. That is part of your case and I support my clients in preparing for this.

Speaker 1: 25:27

I've also just recently added a completely separate service You'll be able to see this on my website if you're interested Completely separate service in preparing women for meeting with court child experts or family consultants. That's a two and a half hour session specifically for that purpose. It can also be used to prep for mediation, if need be. And again, I bring with this not only professional experience but lived experience. You know, in my own journey, with three years in the court system, I had two of these reports prepared. So that means that I've met with two different court child experts on two completely separate occasions. So I don't just have book learning, I don't just have stuff that I've read off a website about this. I know what it's like to sit in one of those meetings. I know the sorts of questions that are asked. I know how you need to present yourself to optimize your outcome, how to frame your situation so that you're not perceived as part of the problem or so that you're less likely to be perceived as part of the problem. All of this is so crucially important.

Speaker 1: 26:36

I've also helped women to improve their overall outcome after they have received a report that was not what they wanted. So I've had a few women come to work with me after they've received the child impact report or family report and they were disappointed. They were hoping for something that was more in their favour, and perhaps they just simply did not present as well as what they could have again, because they went into it not fully understanding the things that they really needed to understand about their presentation, about the things that they should make sure that they include, about the things that they shouldn't say, all of those sorts of things, and still I've been able to help those women secure a better outcome than what they likely would have been able to otherwise. A huge misconception when it comes to child impact reports and family reports is that a controlling or abusive person is always going to present badly, and oftentimes that's not the case and, unfortunately, if you don't know how to prepare strategically for these reports, my view is that you are taking a huge risk with your outcome and, obviously, the outcome in relation to your kids and your kids' best interests, and I just don't think it's a risk that anybody should take.

Speaker 1: 28:06

Again, this is something that not many professionals have a really good understanding of, and it's also not something that many lawyers can help you with to any significant degree. That's why there are many lawyers who recommend that their clients work with me, not only for the support along the way, support with their emotions, support with co-parenting communication, but also support to prepare for things like meeting with court child experts and family consultants. With everything that I know now, with everything that I've been able to achieve in my own life, in my own case, with everything that I've been able to help my clients to achieve as they navigate their own journeys, I know that if I'd been able to work with a divorce coach like me 16 odd years ago, I absolutely would have fast tracked, optimizing my outcome. I would have saved myself so much energy, so much overwhelming emotion and also a lot of money. This is the thing you know. Divorce coaching, yes, is an additional expense over and above what you might already be paying a lawyer, for example. However, consistently, so many of my clients have told me that they're saving money on their lawyer's fees because there's a lot of things that they can chat with me about instead of speaking with their lawyer about.

Speaker 1: 29:42

So things that really aren't legal questions, as I mentioned earlier, things like parenting arrangements. A lot of people think that they need to speak to a lawyer before even agreeing to any informal parenting arrangements or parenting plans. Absolutely not true, and it's so worth keeping in mind here that the vast majority of lawyers really are not experts or have any significant information on what is the most appropriate care arrangements for the age and the development of your children. A lot of women really regret taking the advice of their lawyer when it comes to a parenting plan, because some lawyers are way too generous in terms of the amount of time they recommend kids spend in the care of a controlling or abusive former partner. Time they recommend kids spend in the care of a controlling or abusive former partner. It's really risky.

Speaker 1: 30:34

Whereas when women chat with me, my primary focus is on the safety, wellbeing and best interests of your children and taking into account the history of the relationship, the parenting capacity of the other parent, the age of your children, whether there is any neurodiversity or additional needs, what the post-separation relationship is like All of those sorts of things are things that I take into account, and you are likely not going to get that from the majority of lawyers or other professionals. Not only are you potentially not going to be getting the best advice for your kids, but you're going to be paying through the nose for the privilege. Clients are also saving money on their legal fees because they will have a chat to me prior to a meeting with their lawyer to get clarity on exactly what they need to be asking their lawyer and they can have a chat with me after meeting with their lawyer to have a debrief, particularly if their lawyer is wanting instructions on what pathway they want to go down. This is something that a lot of my clients will unpack with me in greater detail, and I can help them get clear on what pathway is going to be better aligned with what their ultimate goal is, with the outcome that they're wanting to achieve. Again, this is not something that all lawyers are necessarily great at, so the strategic approach to things and again, they charge a heck of a lot more money than what I do so whilst working with me is an additional cost to my clients. I would go so far as to say that so many of my clients, by working with me, have saved thousands, in some cases tens of thousands of dollars, not only for the reasons that I've just outlined, but also in terms of preparing for mediation and also preparing, as I touched on earlier, for meeting with court, child experts and family consultants, because if you can optimize what is in that impact report or family report, it just makes it so much more likely that the parenting arrangements will ultimately be something that are in line with what you are seeking, and this can ultimately lead to getting consent on parenting orders rather than battling it out to a final trial.

Speaker 1: 32:59

Now, that's not always the case. This does depend on the personality of your former partner, particularly whether or not they have a personality disorder and how invested they are in the outcome. Sometimes, no matter what comes out in a family report or impact report, they are just hell-bent on equal, shared care and can't see the wood for the trees. But in many cases, they are more likely to consent if it's clear from the recommendations of the report writer that their position, your ex's position, is not supported. And this is important for you to be aware of, because if there's any lawyer out there talking about themselves as being a strategist or being strategic, if there's any other divorce or separation professional whether we're talking about a coach or anyone else who's working in this space and who talks about strategy, them being able to help you with strategy, them being strategic you know this is the sort of stuff that they need to be able to support you with, and I think they need to have runs on the board in terms of their own lived experience and also in terms of getting positive outcomes, optimized outcomes for other people, and it's important for you to ask questions about those sorts of things, for you to have a chat with that particular person to find out. Do they actually know what it is that they're talking about?

Speaker 1: 34:20

And this is one of the reasons why, at the time of recording this, I'm still offering free 30-minute discovery calls for anyone who thinks that I might be the right fit for them and for their situation. I want you to jump on the website, book that free discovery call so that we can have a chat, so that you can find out for yourself. You know, is this woman the right person to help me? Because I don't want to take anybody's money if they don't feel confident that I can help, and if I don't feel confident that I can help and if I don't feel confident that I can help in that particular situation. So if you've been listening to this and you like what you hear about me, about the things that I can support you with and the way in which that might help you to optimize your outcome again, this will be so very relevant if you are currently navigating the court system or if you think there's a good chance that that will happen, please jump on my website, danielleblackcoachingcomau, book a free discovery call, let's have a chat, ask me some questions, ask me about the ways in which I would be able to help you with your specific situation, and then we can go from there.

Speaker 1: 35:37

If you are preparing for mediation, if you are preparing to meet with a court child expert or family report writer and you're concerned that you don't have time to first book a discovery call and then sign up to work with me From my website, you can also book a two and a half hour strategy session with me to prepare again for either mediation or for meeting with a court, child expert or family consultant. Please, I can't recommend that consultation enough. I know how influential these reports are from these particular court-appointed experts. You really do not want to wing it From someone who has lived experience of this and supporting a number of women, both helping them to prepare for their family report or child impact report, and also working with women after the fact to help them repair the damage that has been caused to their case by getting a less than favourable report. Please, I know I'm probably sounding like a broken record here and I apologise, but this is because I care about you, I care about your kids and I know how influential these reports can be. So, as I said, if you don't have time prior to mediation or prior to meeting with the expert to have a discovery call, please just jump on my website and book the two and a half hour strategy session with me. You will not regret it. Apologies to my current clients, who obviously already know what I do and all the ways that I can help.

Speaker 1: 37:22

Congratulations if you listened to all of this episode. Current clients, you're amazing. You know I love you If you stuck it out for this long and you're a current client. Jump in the online community, make a post or send me a direct message. Let me know what you thought. For anyone who's listening, who's not yet a client, I would love to connect with you. I know the other women that I'm working with would love to connect with you and support you as well. We just have the most incredible community. However lonely you might feel on this journey, please know that you are not alone. Thank you so much for your time. I'll talk to you soon.